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Your Feedback: When do we "take" your kids?
From: Webmaster (webmaster@kids-right.org)
This is a message from a mailing list, members@kids-right.org http://www.kids-right.org/ To unsubscribe from this list at anytime, send email to Majordomo@kids-right.org with the following 1 line in the BODY of the message (Subject is ignored). unsubscribe members ====================================================================== Good People, This message contains your FEEDBACK and opinions: 1. What is serious "child abuse?" -- when do we take your kids? 2. General opinions -- especially good message on MADD and reform. 1. What is serious "child abuse?" -- when do we take your kids? ---------------------------------------------------------------- On a recent message we had asking what you think serious "child abuse" is? The entire message can be found at http://www.AKidsRight.Org/archive/archive2001 An excerpt follows, then your comments: =============== * A single parent family where the father has died. Mom is convicted of a DWI (no accident, children were NOT in the car) -- does society interfere? * Same as above, no accident, but the children are in the car? * You have two parents who smoke "like chimnies" in the house with their children (who they love). Without a doubt, breathing that second hand smoke will shorten their lifetimes. Does the government have the right to step in and take the children until the parents stop smoking? (Or will the children be abused by that experience?) * Same situation as above, BUT -- the couple splits, the mother quits smoking, the mother continues to smoke. Does the government now have the right to take the child from Mom? * You have two handicapped parents (wheel chairs) who have children. Admitedly, in an emergency situation they may not be able to protect their children as well. Admittedly, they may not be able to do some activities with their children as well. Does social services have the right to take the children to a 'better' home? (This one is REAL and they did take the kids -- another case from Canada http://www.AKidsRight.org/shame5.htm#edberg) * Same situation as above, BUT -- the couple splits, only one parent is handicapped? =============== [As you review some of the thoughts below. Please ask yourself the question -- "what about my right to nurture my child?" We did not get a lot of direct answers to the questions above. We would welcome any other ideas on the above situations!] ---- Ahippiecwgrl@aol.com It seems as though our Government wants to ensure the demise of our society by allowing our children to raised with the notion that "it's OK" to use drugs, alchohol and abuse in any form. To be a descent person, free of vices and a clear mind are obviously not desireable qualities to pass on to our children. As your letter indicated, children are not objects to be shared. They are precious young seeds that need to be protected, now more than ever, even from a parent, who does not understand what it means to be a parent. The problem is that our Goverment is for sale and the interest of a few such as these Radical Father Right's groups and their money is making our lives surreal. I believe that yes, fathers have rights, too but not more than mother. It is obscene that children are taken from their mother because she tries to protect her children. And only in America is motherhood so devalued and trivialized. There are clear instances where children do need goverment to interfere but each case should be treated individually with compassion ( what's that!). Something like smoking should not be a determing factor to take a child from Mom! Unless the child has a health condition such as asthma. Then she should be educated and encouraged to stop. In case, my son was ripped from me and given to be raised by a man who has abused him in every way! Yes, and it was substantiated by our government with out a doubt... yet he is the better parent! ---- THARPER001@aol.com While I would never want anyone interfering with the way I raise my children, I don't think the government steps in as often as they should. In our society, we have taken action away from the school teachers, the day-care centers and, in some cases, even parents. We're too afraid of being "politically incorrect" and being sued. When I was in school, and it wasn't that long ago, I was sent to the office one time. I was scared to death... first of all, telling my parents was going to be hell. They expected more out of me. Second of all, I did not want to face the principal. They did not do corpal punishment, but they still had the upper hand. Today, kids don't fear anything, because no one can punish them, and they know it. They are taught however, that if their parents spank them, they can call HRS. I'm sorry, but I will spank my children if they deserve it. I was spanked when I was a child, maybe once every four or five months. I respected my parents, and my children will respect me. The government doesn't want to step in, but yet they teach our children otherwise and take our control away from us. As far as abuse goes, I have a 9 year old, soon-to-be, stepdaughter. Since she was born, her mother has moved her to 17 different houses (that's moving almost every six months); the child attended 4 different schools last year... she has attended approximately 9 schools since the winter of 1998; the mother cannot hold a steady job... can't hold a steady boyfriend either. Even the school teacher has mentioned to her father that this child does not get what she needs at home. To me, this is absolutely, no question about it, emotional abuse. This child is suffering at the hands of her mother... no not with bruises and scars, but emotionally. With emotional abuse, the effects might not show up until years down the road. We have called the Department of Children and Family, and basically have been told they can't do anything. They don't see anything wrong with a 9 year old staying home by herself until 7:00 pm and probably later than that, having to rely on either her father or soccer coach to pick her up for soccer games... they live 1.5 hours away from us, and her father gets down there as often as possible (normally goes to lunch with her at least once a week). The child, who lives about 2 miles from the school, has been tardy almost every day this year. We took her to court two years ago, after thoroughly researching and documenting everything for about six months. We handed this case to our attorney on a silver platter... we had about 15 witnesses, included two ex-boyfriends of the mother, the community center staff (after-school care), the soccer coach, a police officer... all of these pillars of the community were going to testify for us... we even wrote the questions for the depositions. We also had proof that she was living with someone who she had an active restraining order on with a 3 page signed testimony that violence occurred in front of the child. We decided to take her to court when she told us she was going to marry this person. UNFORTUNATELY, our attorney never did what we hired him to do. He had phone numbers, a 3", 3-ring binder full of information and documentation. He never filed for the modification. So, after six months of nothing, we let it go because the mother had put the child in a private school, had moved into a place of her own. We knew what that would look like in a court's eyes. Even though, tigers can't change their stripes. We are waiting on another opportunity to win custody... we both have had the same jobs for the past six, seven years. (I've only worked for 3 employers in my 13 years in the workforce). I am also a part-time student. The father lived in the same place for seven years prior to our recent move into a wonderful, family-oriented neighborhood. Yes, we do live together and are planning to get married in March. We have been together for 3 years, and I did not move in until about 1.5 years into the relationship. I have been in her life for a while. Clearly, he is the better-suited parent to be raising his daughter. Unfortunately, as she gets older, she is getting a smart mouth, she can't get along with other children, the teacher constantly has to move her around the class room. She blames everyone else when she gets in trouble. She's a very bright kid, but I'm afraid if we don't get custody within the next year or so, she's going to have a very tough life. And we're going to have a tough time trying to correct what her mother has done. And, like most fathers, her father doesn't want to come down on her too hard because of her circumstances that she has to live with every day. A lot of changes need to be made for the best interest of the children. Every case is different. I believe the government should pay more attention to the facts of each case, and not view it as a he said, she said. We have so much documentation that is nothing but FACT. Can't argue with it. And clearly it shows who the better parent would be. I know there are those out there that might not be able to hold a steady job, or are constantly moving, and they truly love their children. Those are the ones that spend ALL their spare time with their children. This woman does not. She doesn't have a caring bone in her body. She is concerned about herself first, and true parents always put their children first. I know some of this is just rambling, our case is so involved, I could write a novel. Sorry about the length. ---- Bill Wood - woodb01@bellsouth.net Regarding the idea: --- Children are not possessions. They are not for their parent's amusement. We should take more consideration in the rights of the innocent and less of the parents. --- I think if this is what she believes, that parents need LESS RIGHTS, then SHE should be the first to give her own up. This commentary is reminiscint of what Jefferson said about security. When you give up liberty and freedom for security, you get neither (paraphrased). She should not be a parent with this dangerous philosophy about parenting. Also, I have been seeing more and more of the "fem" sob stories and men's stories seem to be conspicuously absent. Also, most of these stories are strikingly similar with claims of drugs, alcohol, child abuse, and domestic violence. Yet oddly, it seeems that ALL of the reputable studies demonstrate that men don't have a "corner" or "lock" on those markets. I'm wondering how many plants are at work... ---- kidsright@yahoo.com (Not associated with AKidsRight.Org) Thoughts on the same idea (above): Congratulations to the person that wrote into you! They understand what abuse is and you have no concept what it is about! The single greatest abuse to children is child abuse. This includes beating your children, verbally assulting them and molesting them! Sir, that is abuse! If you have ever lived through it, than you would know! Again, I am glad this lady articulated the more important concern in our society! 2. General Opinions ------------------- ---- NOT a good idea - THARPER001@aol.com I completely agree with what you all are trying to do. However, I do not agree with you making a big deal about not being able to walk around the floor of a federal building, or that Senator Clinton and her staff did not feel comfortable with your presence. While you stated that everyone was treated fairly, I still caught a slight attitude about not being able to do what has been done in the past. Might I remind you, especially in a Federal building, things aren't the same and they won't be for some time, if ever. Don't overshadow your purpose by trying to walk around Federal buildings and get slapped with a trespassing warning. That's only going to cause confusion and take up someone's time that should be focusing on real threats. There is one thing, and one thing only on everyone's mind... Unfortunately, that has put other causes on the back burners. ---- Learn from MADD - Doug Heffley - dheffley@essex1.com For those of you who want to believe: One of the best examples I know of for successful Grassroots Political Action is Mother's Against Drunk Driving (MADD). Although Candy Lightner is probably the best known of MADD's organizers, MADD was established by a group of women in California outraged after the death of a teenage girl killed by a repeat-offender drunk driver. Their story best tells the short comings of our so called representative form of government. I suggest each of you rent and view "The Cindy Lightner Story". A responsive government would not have had to be embarrassed into passing stronger penalties against drunk drivers. The liquor lobby had the majority of "Government Officials" in their hip pocket. Most of the dedicated women who started MADD didn't work "Part-Time" at it! They had to quit their jobs and neglect their families in order to get "Our Responsive Government" to listen and act upon the statistics. It wasn't visits to Washington or Sacramento that got the ball rolling! It was the badgering of the media until they came on board! Until that time their pleas fell upon the deaf ears of "Government Officials"! Not until the Washington elite was thoroughly embarrassed in the press and on the evening news did things start to change. When Washington excepted the fact that MADD was not going to give up and go home then, and only then did the Washington crowd try to make out that they were always on the side of "Accountability"! So if you are willing and able to give up your jobs and follow a good example for a non-violent battle plan, follow the example of the best of the best! Today MADD has enough funding to pay most of their "Full Timers" and have a Nation Office as well as chapters scattered across the fifty states. I volunteer myself, when I am available. Today the Washington crowd gather and listen when MADD speaks! MADD now received donations from a large group of fortune 500 companies as well as public donations. This is what it takes to maintain a "Political Action Committee". If I knew of one group in our interests that had promise like this I would be less of a pessimist! It is not that we haven't made some progress, it is the fact that those who profit off of the misery of others still control 90% of the legislation passed concerning family matters and their interests represent their continued profits and not the effects this industry actually perpetrates on families! ---- Needs a little help! - Susan Regan - saavikkam77@hotmail.com HEY,. EVERYBODY, HOW'S IT GOING? AS FOR ME MY CASEWORKER HAS SUSPENDED ALL OF MY VISITS WITH MY OLDEST DAUGHTER ASHLEY. THEY SAID SHE DOESN'T WANT TO SEE ME ANYMORE. BUT, THEY SAID I COULD VISIT MINA. BUT, IT HAS TO BE WHILE ASHLEY IS IN SCHOOL. SO, THINGS HAVE BEEN SOMEWHAT UPSETTING. MU FORMER ATTORNEY TODL ME I COULD FILE A SUIT AGAINST THE STATE SO, I'M GOING TO LOOK INTO IT AND SHE WHAT I COULD DO. IF ANYONE HAS ANY ADVICE PLEASE WRITE ME. THANKS AND GOD BLESS, ---- Your messages help - Kelly Graham - akakelleygraham@yahoo.com Everytime I feel like my situation is hopeless and that I am alone in this, I get a newsletter from you. Thanks for keeping me in touch with the real world. Its so easy to feel crazy when everyone around you (uninformed people) tells you you're wrong. Thanks for the moral support. ---- Couldn't hug my child - Alan Rosenthal - IFindOut@aol.com After the World Trade Center attack, President Bush spoke to Congress. One of the first "directives" he gave to the American People was to "HUG YOUR CHILDREN". I could not fulfill the President's directive thanks to the courts. This added hurt to horror in my day. ---- The issue is Civil Rights - Craig - craig@fatherlove.com In the context of major injustices of the past such as slavery and a women's right to vote the failure of our political leaders to recognize the destruction of our families is shameful. But, I strongly support what you and your associates are working towards. ---- Keep trying for Reform - Peter Tonkin - ptonkin@bridgemicro.com Keep going I love the fact that you love your child, keep going, you make things shake and society needs a shaking, we need support for our divorced children, they need us now that our country is in a ramble. If I need to protect my divorced son, I can't even get him out of his school because I'm not on the list of people to accept him. You are important to the children of the next generation.......Peter ---- Regarding Senator Hillary Clinton's refusal to respond - Karl Denninger - karl@FS.Denninger.net Media folks, media. You should have come with a tape recorder, or even better, a video recorder. Get Clinton's staff saying ON CAMERA that she does not want to hear more about this issue. Then get that to the media. ================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list at anytime, send email to Majordomo@kids-right.org with the following 1 line in the BODY of the message (Subject is ignored). unsubscribe members
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